NEW YORK, NY.- You might have heard: Taylor Swift cannot be stopped.
Her latest album, The Tortured Poets Department, sold 2.6 million copies in its opening week in April, earning Swift her eighth Billboard No. 1 album since 2020.
At the Grammy Awards in February, she became the first artist to win album of the year for a fourth time, breaking a tie with Frank Sinatra, Stevie Wonder and Paul Simon.
And her Eras Tour, the stadium takeover that began last year, has resumed abroad before it returns to the United States in October.
In 2023, according to the data tracking service Luminate, one in every 78 songs streamed in the U.S. was by Swift. With prolific artistic output and relentless business savvy, along with cultural dominance as a celebrity, Swift, 34, has created such momentum that she is likely more popular, more omnipresent, 19 years into her professional music career than ever.
That is not normal.
But just how big is Taylor Swift, in terms of the all-time pop pantheon?
The singers ongoing surge has inspired inevitable debates about how her success stacks up not only against her pop peers, such as Beyoncé and Drake, but to the greats that came before them. Even Billy Joel said he could compare this Swift moment only to Beatlemania.
It may be impossible to do an exact, one-to-one comparison between Swifts career and that of the Beatles or Madonna, Michael Jackson, Britney Spears, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John or your icon of choice. Besides music being personal and subjective, the nature of success (and how it is calculated) has changed drastically over time. Much of a stars grip on the zeitgeist is also intangible a vibe in the air, their influence moving subtly but undeniably through culture.
But the absence of a truly scientific comparison has never stopped the amusement that comes from the eternal sports and pop culture debates of our time: Jordan vs. LeBron (or Kareem, or Kobe). Brady vs. Montana (or Marino, or Mahomes). Star Wars vs. Star Trek (or Harry Potter, or the Marvel Universe).
Even without definitive conclusions, its impossible for certain loyalists, haters and obsessives not to wonder how giants match up using whatever evidence might be available.
So with Swifts career still peaking late into its second decade, we ran the numbers and analyzed the data, taking stock of what she has accomplished so far and when alongside some of the heaviest hitters in each category.
TAYLOR VS. THE BEATLES
Hit Singles
First, there are the Beatles, who for most music fans still represent the gold standard of pop mania in modern times.
When it comes to Billboard No. 1 singles, they set the benchmark.
From the early 1960s, when pop music usually came in the form of two-sided vinyl singles, until the Fab Four broke up in 1970, the band released 64 songs that landed on Billboards all-genre chart, known as the Hot 100.
In that time, the Beatles helped to usher in the rock n roll revolution and the album age by releasing more than a dozen LPs. But many of the records they set for hit singles still stand today.
When looking at how Swifts Top 10 hits compare with those of the Beatles over the course of their careers, starting with the year each of them released their first original single in the U.S., what is incredible to remember is that almost all of the Beatles success and their entire artistic output happened very quickly. Of the bands 35 total Top 10 hits, 32 arrived in just eight years. (Three more Top 10s came after the band split.)
The Beatles came in hot, then they were gone a risk for groups, with their various egos and complications, that Swift will never have to face. Her career, on the other hand, has been a much slower burn, as she grew from country music ingénue to full-bore pop star. Swifts first Top 10 song (Change) didnt hit until around her second album, Fearless, in 2008.
When focusing on No. 1s, the Beatles really dominate, with more chart-toppers than any other artist, a record theyve held since 1965.
Out of the Beatles 20 No. 1s, the majority also came quickly, with 11 songs, including I Want to Hold Your Hand, Love Me Do and Yesterday, topping the chart in 1964 and 1965, their earliest years as a fresh-faced phenomenon.
Swifts first chart-topper, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together, in 2012, needed a more dramatic twist. Seven years into her career, she left behind her Nashville sound and collaborated with pop guru Max Martin, who trails only John Lennon and Paul McCartney with 25 career No. 1s as a songwriter.
The bulk of Swifts singles success has come even later, with seven of her 12 total No. 1s, including Fortnight, Cruel Summer and All Too Well (Taylors Version), arriving in the last five years, as her career entered its teens.
By that point in their musical lives, the individual Beatles were well into their various solo endeavors, with McCartney experimenting with new wave and George Harrison writing songs about race cars.
But as with any comparison across eras, there must be footnotes and asterisks. When we look at Top 10s from the 1960s, were counting only an artists actual singles songs released for purchase outside of a full album.
After 1998, the rules began changing to include any song on the radio, regardless of how it was released, and eventually counting digital downloads and streams. By todays rules, the Beatles would have even more hits than Billboards official count.
Swift, whose new album features 31 songs, each of which hit the Hot 100, has dominated with these new metrics: In 2022, she became the first artist to occupy the entire Top 10 on the Hot 100 at once after the release of Midnights. She repeated and expanded upon that feat this year with songs from The Tortured Poets Department, which filled the top 14 spots on the singles chart.
This might measure a different kind of fervor than the musical ubiquity of the Beatles or others who ruled the radio later a depth of obsession for Swifts fans who stream her music billions of times and purchase it in multiple formats.
The length of Swifts career has allowed her into the Beatles vaunted ballpark by giving her the chance to evolve her sound, grow her loyal audience and take full advantage of technological advances.
As wild as it is for the Beatles to have accomplished so much in so little time, Swifts longevity might be considered equally impressive in pop music, which often overvalues the new and especially among female artists the young.
TAYLOR VS. MICHAEL JACKSON
Album Sales
Despite Swifts streaming success and ability to move even vinyl records the bar can only be Michael Jackson when it comes to album sales.
Like the Beatles, Jackson reached heights pop had never seen, changing the very nature of stardom, for better and worse, by kicking off the MTV video age and ruling popular culture amid tabloid mayhem.
Unlike the Beatles career, Jacksons was relatively long, from his time as a child star in the Jackson 5 until his death in 2009 at 50. But the meat of Jacksons solo career lasted from 1972 through 2001, during which he put out 10 albums and followed a fairly typical arc for a pop career: the release of starter albums like Got to Be There and Ben in the early 1970s, then a big breakthrough Off the Wall in 1979 and a peak, before Jackson slowed down somewhat, at least commercially.
That peak just happened to be Thriller arguably the peak of all pop peaks which came out in 1982, when Jackson was 24.
For albums, going platinum or selling 1 million copies is the go-to stat. In the four-plus decades since Thriller was released, it has been certified 34 times platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America, making it one of the most successful albums of all time.
Swifts biggest albums so far are Fearless, which is officially 10 times platinum, and 1989, at nine times platinum.
However, Swifts platinum certifications are not totally up-to-date and do not yet count the sales of her redone Taylors Version releases, which have not been officially tallied by the RIAA. (Its also worth noting that an album sale now means something different: a set amount of song streams or downloads is considered the equivalent of one album sold.)
Using the more recent sales data available for Swifts albums, which can help us estimate where her RIAA certifications will be when theyre updated, she starts to approach and even pass Jacksons monster platinum totals, giving us a better idea of how Swift will stack up to Jackson long term.
Remember, Swifts albums have about 30 years less of collective sales compared with Thriller and theyre still being actively promoted.
Swifts 1989 also released when she was 24 may be the closest thing she has to Jacksons biggest blockbuster.
And shes been strategic enough to release it twice, elongating what could be considered her career peak by stretching it across two distinct eras nearly a decade apart.
Part of Swifts genius as shes run up the stats these last few years releasing nearly 200 songs since the pandemic is that the music that first made her a star in the mid-to-late aughts is exploding again alongside her latest hits, giving new fans a fresh entry point.
Already, Swift has released more solo albums than Jackson ever did, and with her productivity including those two different versions of four of her albums so far she can approach the King of Pop.
In all, Jacksons 10 solo albums have been certified 72 times platinum. Swifts 11 original albums have been certified 50 times platinum. But her album sales tell us that number, including Taylors Versions, is likely to be closer to 90. And she is very much still going The Tortured Poets Department had already topped 3 million about a month after its release..
TAYLOR VS. BRITNEY SPEARS
A Pop-Star Arc
Swifts extended peak becomes even more of a standout when compared with a more typical pop trajectory even one with towering highs.
Like Swift, Britney Spears released her debut single at age 16 and came to absolutely dominate the cultural conversation (sometimes in ways that discounted her music in favor of her love life).
Commercially huge in its moment, Spears music career was also relatively short-lived, which tends to be the case more often than not, especially for singers who are known as performers and celebrities more than quote-unquote serious artists.
Swift, unlike Spears, has been firm in branding herself as a songwriter from the beginning, helping stave off some sexist criticism of her music as frivolous. For reasons that became more complicated as time went on, Spears career sloped downward commercially basically from the moment it began, if youre looking at album sales.
Baby One More Time, Spears 1999 debut, sold impressively. It has been certified platinum more times than, say, Abbey Road. But its not quite 1989 even in raw numbers, leaving aside any questions of authorship, artistic merit and staying power.
The diminishing returns of Spears subsequent releases represent a sadly common path for the kind of pop singers that audiences can treat as disposable, with a new model always on the horizon.
TAYLOR VS. MADONNA
Era After Era
Madonnas ability to reinvent to persist as a woman in pop is the reason we talk about artist eras to begin with. Another pathbreaking solo pop singer with a huge peak, a long run of domination, a savvy command of marketing and unexpected longevity, Madonna has had a career that is 43 years long and counting.
From her breakthrough second album, Like a Virgin, released in 1984, when she was 26, through Bedtime Stories in 1994, Madonna was inescapable, pushing the boundaries of visual and sonic reinvention that are now considered prerequisites for top acts.
Examining Madonnas Top 10 Billboard hits against Swifts shows how consistent both artists have been over extended periods of time but also when in their careers each was most in the mix.
Madonna scored No. 1 hits across three decades, beginning with the title track from Like a Virgin in 1984. In her first 10 years dominating the charts, Madonna had 10 No. 1s, ruling radio, MTV and nightclubs. She also appeared in blockbuster movies such as Dick Tracy and Evita, expanding her cultural omnipresence.
Madonnas peak was fueled in part by the kind of polarizing, shock-value controversy think Like a Virgin, Like a Prayer or the Sex book from 1992 that Swift has studiously avoided. (Although she, too, has had her share of extramusical headlines, like the Kanye West Video Music Awards moment in 2009.)
But it was Madonnas multifaceted fame as a triple threat that helped lead to many of her No. 1 hits, including Vogue (from Im Breathless, the Dick Tracy soundtrack album) and This Used to Be My Playground (the theme from A League of Their Own).
Swift has also dipped a toe into Hollywood, although her roles in Valentines Day, Cats and David O. Russells Amsterdam are less fondly remembered (and have resulted in no hit songs).
The most recent of Madonnas 12 No. 1 hits (Music, from 2000) came 19 years into her career where Swift is now at the age of 42. Madonnas eight-year comeback period, from Ray of Light in 1998 to Confessions on a Dance Floor in 2005, resulted in six Top 10 hits. She has 38 overall (with none since 2012), compared with Swifts 59 so far.
TAYLOR VS. THE VETERANS
Touring and Awards
Alongside pop survivor Madonna, now 65, acts such as Elton John, 77, and Bruce Springsteen, 74, are an interesting comparison point for Swift because of their productivity, longevity and critical acclaim all of which have paid off on the road. (See also: Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones, who are not included here, but would be interesting points of comparison using slightly different metrics.)
While Madonna has slipped on the charts none of her most recent four albums has gone platinum she remains a major live draw, a standard give-and-take for a top-tier legacy act.
John and Springsteen, both veterans about 50 years into their careers, also had periods of commercial dominance beginning in the 1970s with their respective albums Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (released when John was 26, that pop-star sweet spot) and Born to Run (from when Springsteen was 25).
But as they settled into pop-star middle age, plateauing commercially, they too have persisted with uber-successful, long-running tours fueled by fan allegiance and critical acclaim.
Looking at the total grosses for the bestselling tours by John and Springsteen puts them in the company of more commercially dominant artists like Swift, Madonna and Jackson.
Johns Farewell Yellow Brick Road Tour, a late-career greatest hits show named for his biggest album, made nearly $1 billion in part because it lasted for six years and more than 300 dates.
Madonnas bestselling tour was Sticky & Sweet, from 2008 and 2009. (Like Swifts Eras Tour, Madonnas recent Celebration Tour highlighted all the periods of her four-decade career, although it was less profitable and played arenas rather than stadiums.)
If you look at how much these major tours made per show, the rankings change. This is where Swift shines, taking in more than $17 million per concert. By the time its over, the Eras Tour could bring in more than $2 billion in ticket sales.
One notable aspect of Swifts career is that it seems to bridge the gap between two kinds of artists, both of which can become legacy acts with strong enough catalogs and fan bases: the sustained, hit-making entertainers who may be overlooked, at least at first, as musicians, and the serious singer-songwriters who tend to be more critically lauded.
The Grammys, love them or hate them, are voted on by other musicians and provide a proxy stat for prestige and overall acclaim in the moment.
While Swift has already outpaced Jackson and Springsteen in Grammy nominations, its Beyoncé another artist who has changed the way we talk about pop stars who has the most nominations ever.
Looking at Grammy wins, highly nominated artists including John and Drake, another modern juggernaut, drop on the list, having converted fewer of their nominations to victories compared with, say, Jackson and Springsteen. Springsteen has won 20 Grammys across the decades, from his first for Dancing in the Dark in 1985 to his most recent, in 2010, for Working on a Dream.
Beyoncé is the winningest musician ever at the Grammys, where she has been awarded 32 times, topping conductor Georg Solti (31) and producer Quincy Jones (28), who was behind Jacksons Thriller.
Yet Beyoncé has still never taken album of the year where Swift has four trophies and has won only once in the top categories, which include record, song and album of the year, along with best new artist. Its been more than a decade since Beyoncé earned a top-tier Grammy, when Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It) was awarded song of the year.
Madonna didnt win her first Grammy until 1992 (for best music video!) and has only scattered victories since, indicating she may have been viewed by her industry peers as more of a commercial force than a musicians musician.
It is worth pointing out that the Beatles won just four Grammys while active, including two in the big four categories, out of 20 nominations, demonstrating how hard it is to quantify musical quality and how esteem tends to shift over time. (Three more nominations and wins came after they broke up.)
The band took the top prize just once for Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band, the first rock album to win, in 1968 in part because the Grammys, until the late 1960s, were quite conservative, often recognizing old-school, traditional pop acts like Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand. (Help! and Revolver both lost to Sinatra.)
Looking at stats like that, you could argue that the most popular musicians are taken more seriously as artists now than ever before, in no small part because of acts like the Beatles, Jackson and Madonna.
TAYLOR VS. BEYONCÉ AND DRAKE
Modern Heavyweights
While Swifts overall pound-for-pound standing in each of the categories weve looked at puts her in rare historical company, it is notable that two of her most immediate contemporaries Beyoncé, 42, and Drake, 37 are also legitimate challengers across the board.
All three artists have maneuvered the industry transitions between CDs, downloads and streaming to become defining modern superstars while maximizing such intangibles as cultural reach and celebrity domination.
Beyoncé, now 23 years into a solo career after her time with the group Destinys Child, stands with Swift when it comes to versatility and longevity, accompanied by sustained commercial dominance.
Comparing their album sales as solo artists side by side, its clear that Beyoncés commercial peak (so far) came with I Am
Sasha Fierce, released in 2008, when she was 27. That album has sold more than 9 million copies.
Since then, while selling fewer records, she has focused on different pillars of legacy, pioneering the visual album format (Beyoncé, Lemonade), experimenting with genre (Renaissance, Cowboy Carter) and pushing the limits of an extravagant live spectacle (Coachella, the Renaissance World Tour).
Both Beyoncé and Swift have had big-selling No. 1 albums this year, during fresh periods of productivity.
Like Madonna and Swift, Beyoncé has continued to stretch the limits of what a womans pop career can hold, landing two chart-topping singles in her 40s (with Break My Soul, in 2022, and again earlier this year, with the country-influenced Texas Hold Em).
She has also performed twice at the Super Bowl something Swift has yet to do a stage where acts including Madonna, Jackson and Springsteen have solidified their unquantifiable grasp on culture.
And then there is Drake, a relentless hitmaker. Like Swift, Drake has optimized his output to take advantage of the way streaming has reshaped the industry and its accolades to set records, including 328 total entries on the Hot 100. Swift, with 232, is the only other artist with at least 200.
Drake has 78 Top 10 hits so far in his career and 13 No. 1s stemming from a variety of projects: official albums, less official mixtapes, streaming-only playlists, one-off singles, collaborative albums and more. As a rapper and frequent guest artist, Drake, unlike Swift, has appeared on many hits by others. Among Drakes top hits, he is a featured artist on 20, including three No. 1s such as his first, Rihannas Whats My Name? in 2010 accounting for a wide reach beyond his own releases.
Yet somehow Drake and Swift have never released a song together, despite sharing a certain canniness and expressing mutual appreciation for each other.
Even in his recent battle with Kendrick Lamar, Drake made clear that he sees Swift as his only real contemporary competition. (He has also rapped about having more slaps than the Beatles and frequently invokes Jacksons success as a touchstone.)
Drake, Beyoncé and Swift all have this modern characteristic in common: Theyre each actively playing for legacy, one eye on history and another on the record books. Ambitious and autonomous, theyre proudly writing their résumés in real time, juicing Billboard numbers and even gunning for accolades.
As a shrewd student of music and fame, Swift may know that she will never achieve the exact kind of domination that the Beatles, Jackson and Madonna had at the height of global monoculture, when everyone might pay attention to the same thing. But shes certainly trying, taking bits and pieces from eachs career and making sure to maximize her work and reach in all the ways that werent available then.
She cares how shes perceived and how shell be remembered when the noise fades and all thats left are the songs and the stats.
So far, its working.
SOURCES
TOP 10 and NO. 1 SINGLES: Source: Billboard. Hits are plotted on the year in which they first peaked on the Billboard Hot 100.
PLATINUM ALBUMS: Source: Recording Industry Association of America online database.
ALBUM SALES: Source: Luminate.
GRAMMYS: Source: Grammys.com.
TOURING: Source for Taylor Swift, Madonna, Elton John, Bruce Springsteen, Beyoncé, Drake: Pollstar. Source for Michael Jackson: Vibe Magazine; Michael Jackson Inc.: The Rise, Fall, and Rebirth of a Billion-Dollar Empire, by Zack OMalley Greenburg. Gross numbers and per-show totals adjusted for inflation.
This article originally appeared in
The New York Times.