LOS ANGELES, CA.- Director Denis Villeneuve and actor Timothée Chalamet bound into the room talking at, and over, each other in rapid French. Villeneuve is from Quebec; Chalamet was born in New York City but has dual American and French citizenship. Together, theyre a dynamic tag team dressed near-identically in head-to-toe black, although Chalamets shiny leather layers have more swagger. The topic of the day is galactic genocide and dubious messiahs, central themes in Dune: Part Two, the second installment of their cerebral space epic based on the 1965 novel by Frank Herbert. Yet, the pair are prone to giggle fits.
We didnt see each other since a while, so its like a holiday, Villeneuve, 56, said apologetically, switching to English. When coffee arrives at the room at the Four Seasons hotel in Los Angeles, the two clink mugs. Thats our spice, he chuckled, referring to the psychedelic substance found only on the movies planet Arrakis.
In Dune, spice is the most valuable resource in the universe. Herbert conceived of it as a glittering dust with the power to expand minds, fuel interstellar travel and incite bloody battles over its distribution. Combine the brain-melting effects of peyote, the geopolitical strife over oil and the violence of Prohibition-era bootlegging. Multiply that by the number of stars in the sky and you get the idea.
The previous Dune, released in 2021, won six Academy Awards. It climaxed with Chalamets sheltered scion, Paul Atreides, abducted from his familys spice-mining compound and left to die in the scorching Arrakis desert, patrolled by fanged sandworms the size of the Empire State Building. To survive Part Two, Pauls mother, Jessica (Rebecca Ferguson), encourages the Fremen, a tribe of desert-dwellers, to believe that her son is their long-awaited savior. The danger is that Paul might be swayed to believe it, too, even as the hallucinogenic spice peppers him with visions of a jihad waged in his name.
Heavy stuff. Not that its weighing down their mood. As Chalamet, 28, grinned, he said, The great irony of working with a master like Denis is its not some pompous experience. The two spoke further about the next potential sequel, the impossible quest for on-screen perfection and those infamous Dune popcorn buckets. Here are edited excerpts from our conversation.
Q: People have described your dynamic as father and son. Is that how it feels to you?
DENIS VILLENEUVE: At the beginning, I had a lot of empathy for Timothée that he was stepping forward in a production of that scale. Hes the age of my kids, and I was trying to find ways to take care of my new friend. Maybe I was paternalistic.
TIMOTHÉE CHALAMET: I was grateful. The scale was so large, the actors were such titans. I felt a protected aura.
VILLENEUVE: When he walked into the set of Part Two, it was totally different. Much more confident. Much more solid. He was not impressed by the size of things anymore. You were jaded!
CHALAMET: No!
VILLENEUVE: Its the first time that I had the chance to see an artist growing up in front of the camera. Thats very moving.
Q: You came into the room speaking French. Did you use it on set as your own language?
VILLENEUVE: Yes. It was the way that we were able to find intimacy in the chaos. It was our protected landscape. A second secret language.
CHALAMET: He said it perfectly. Our bubble.
Q: Audiences could have left Dune: Part One thinking, this Paul Atreides kid is terrific, I cant wait to see him take over this planet. Here is where disillusionment sets in.
VILLENEUVE: Frank Herbert wanted the book to be a cautionary tale, a warning against charismatic religious leaders. He felt that he failed because people misperceived his intentions. So he wrote Dune Messiah, an epilogue where he made sure his ideas would be seen. I think the movies more tragic and more dramatic than the book because its closer to Franks intentions.
Q: Youve talked about making Dune Messiah, based on Herberts second Dune novel, which picks up 12 years into Pauls reign as Emperor of the Known Universe. Under his rule, 61 billion people have died.
VILLENEUVE: [Curses at Chalamet]
CHALAMET: I didnt write it!
Q: But youre waiting until Timothée is older. Six years from now, will you hide his sunscreen so hell age faster?
VILLENEUVE: He will look forever young. Well have to use the magic of AI.
Q: Yet, Pauls visions of the future are not what will happen theyre what might happen.
VILLENEUVE: Yeah. I tried to make sure that you could in some ways explain scientifically what is happening. Paul is a young man that is oversensitive to a hallucinogenic
not psychotic?
CHALAMET: Psychotropic.
VILLENEUVE: Psychotropic substance that gives insight into the future. I didnt want the character to go, OK, its going to happen in five minutes, Ill take my coffee now. Like weird dreams, they are mystical, they are enigmas. The most important thing when we dream is not the images, but the emotions.
Q: Frank Herberts spice was psilocybin. He was into mushrooms way before micro-dosing mushrooms became mainstream.
VILLENEUVE: From being in California
CHALAMET: In the 60s!
VILLENEUVE: A product of his time.
Q: But people also call him a person ahead of his time who predicted elements of our future. What would he say about the present?
VILLENEUVE: He would say, I was telling you!
CHALAMET: I warned you
VILLENEUVE: Its frightening how precise he was.
Q: I have a good friend with a tattoo of the Dune quote, Fear is the mind-killer. Has making these films affected how you handle being afraid?
CHALAMET: Im playing a grounded character who is simply by way of the eyes on him going through something I can relate to.
VILLENEUVE: Movies are very long to make, so it does have an impact on your own psyche. Definitely, it put a seed inside me. I developed an aptitude to be comfortable not knowing the answer right away.
Q: Its been a rough year for superhero movies. This story asks us to think harder about heroes, chosen ones, saviors. Timothée, is it fair to assume that if you wanted to play a superhero, youve had opportunities?
CHALAMET: Well, Leonardo DiCaprio said to me, No superhero movies, no hard drugs. Which I thought was very good.
VILLENEUVE: Which one?
CHALAMET: I follow them both! But the movie that made me want to act is a superhero movie, The Dark Knight. If the script was great, if the director was great, Id have to consider it.
Q: Dune exists in a post-computer world. Computers were destroyed and everybody decided to not rebuild them.
VILLENEUVE: They banned AI and the computer. They are trying to increase the human capacities biologically, instead of having external machines. Dune is not much of a science-fiction movie. Its more about embracing a new culture. For me, its more interesting to explore sand-walking. Its more poetic and cinematic then a spaceship.
Q: In that spirit, you filmed in physical locations in Jordan and Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, that stood in for a planet where its only safe to be outside at sunrise and sunset. That must mean pulling off scenes in a narrow window of sunlight go, go, go!
CHALAMET: Definitely. Those scenes with Chani [Pauls love interest, played by Zendaya], we would shoot at dawn sometimes over three days because you have 30 minutes or an hour.
VILLENEUVE: It gives a lot of credit to the actors, because the cinematographer [Greig Fraser, who won an Oscar for the first Dune] and the director are stubborn and want a precise light that will exist for 10 minutes. I didnt want to make any compromise. Theres scenes that on-screen look very simple, but would be shot in several different environments just to make sure that we have the right rock at the right color at the right time of the day with the precise sun. It was constructed like a puzzle.
Q: Yet, I had the impression that you welcome a bit of imperfection to balance the grandeur. Here, Florence Pugh wears a chain headdress thats sliding off her nose. Another director might have jumped in between takes saying weve got to fix that, make it straight, make it perfect. You chose not to.
VILLENEUVE: [Looks pained]
CHALAMET: Hes going to go edit it right now.
VILLENEUVE: No, no. Its a balance between perfection and life. Life is chaos. Im pretty OCD, but the performance will always prevail. I know exactly what youre talking about. Good eye. Leonard Cohen says that when theres a crack in something, thats where the light comes in. I believe in that. Part of me tried to do it perfect. But life is stronger and I prefer that.
Q: Imperfections make this world feel human.
VILLENEUVE: Im moved by what youre saying because its something that challenges me. Sometimes I know that the camera movement is not absolutely perfect, but theres something in the performance that breaks my heart. [Expletive] it. I will choose that take because it feels more powerful.
Q: Neither of you are strangers to intense compliments. Denis, youve been called a genius, this generations Stanley Kubrick
VILLENEUVE: I learned very early in my career that the bigger the flowers, the bigger the pot that follows after. If you receive a big compliment, someone else will say that youre a hack.
CHALAMET: That is a great quote. The bigger the flowers, the bigger the pot. Wow.
Q: And Timothée, you were nominated for your first Oscar at 22. You both must have insight into the arc of this film: the temptation to buy into your own hype.
VILLENEUVE: Fortunately, Im always feeling like an impostor, so theres no danger!
CHALAMET: Id say the difference is, in this story, theres human life at stake. The role of an actor is never that consequential. Even if youre making powerful work and people relate to it. That make sense?
VILLENEUVE: I was not listening.
Q: I hope youre not thinking about Florences nose.
VILLENEUVE: No, no, no, no, no!
CHALAMET: Hes texting Joe [Walker, who also won an Oscar for editing Dune].
VILLENEUVE: Theres a specific moment when you know that the movies finished because you try to correct the editing and the movie bites you back.
CHALAMET: Dont touch it anymore
VILLENEUVE: Its not perfect
CHALAMET: I had a thought, actually, about the scene
[Both laugh]
Q: Timothée, you once said that when Denis held [a copy of the book] Dune in his hands, his body language was like a little kid. How so?
CHALAMET: Just incredibly enthusiastic and playful. He would take time to think on things or go to the book. Even Austin Butler in interviews said he thought he found the voice of Feyd-Rautha [Pauls sadistic nemesis], and then Denis said, let me dream on it.
VILLENEUVE: Bull. Hes not here, we can say that.
CHALAMET: But Denis total enthusiasm inspires everyone on the set. Every actor, every crew member, you want to make him proud.
VILLENEUVE: Cinema is an act of presence, an act of being totally open. I know on set I look like a 4-year-old Im aware of it but having fun with the toys is the way I make cinema.
Q: Speaking of, the internet seems intimidated by the souvenir sandworm popcorn buckets.
[Chalamet shoots a quick glance at Villeneuve. Both chuckle nervously.]
VILLENEUVE: I dont want to make stupid jokes right now that will I regret tomorrow morning. But I will say this. When I saw it, I went, Hoooooly smokes. What the [expletive]!? At the same time, it created a lot of fun online. So maybe its positive? Its some kind of
impressive design.
Q: I respect a bold choice.
CHALAMET: I cant tell if someone is at home right now going, My design worked perfectly and everyones talking about it. Or if someones brutally offended by the response.
VILLENEUVE: At the end of the day, it seems that bucket brought a lot of laughter and joy, which I think is
CHALAMET: Something we need more of
VILLENEUVE: But I was not
CHALAMET: You were not personally involved in the design process.
VILLENEUVE: I thought you were!
CHALAMET: My idea!
[Both laugh]
This article originally appeared in
The New York Times.