OAKLAND, CALIF.- The Magazine ANTIQUES is presenting a two-part podcast hosted by Ben Miller ("Curious Objects") with Claremont Rug Company (www.claremontrug.com) president and founder Jan David Winitz.

During the conversational interview, Winitz provides insights into the art of collecting elite-level, antique Oriental rugs woven during the Second Golden Age of Persian Weaving (ca. 1800 to ca. 1910). Miller probes how Winitz works with clients as they embark on the process of discovering their tastes and developing their visual palettes.

A highlight of the conversation is an examination of how Winitz guides clients to understand this often-undervalued art form and the educational tools he provides that help them grasp the spirituality that the best-of-the-best rugs offer.

During the discussion, Winitz points out, "People that created the rugs were of the earth. They were pre-industrial people. We deal in almost exclusively in 19th and some 18th-century rugs. The weavers lived in small villages without electricity. Their method of mobility was horseback, and they were very close to the earth. And the rugs are an expression of their relationship with the earth, which is so precious and so needed in today's world."

Miller and Winitz also discuss the importance of "knot count," and Winitz reveals how and when to use it to evaluate a work's creative impact.

To a question about knot count, Winitz pointed out, "One of the great misnomers about antique rugs is that knot count is paramount. It is not by any means. Some of the most valuable and some most beautiful rugs are Caucasian rugs that were made high in the mountains of Central Asia in the Caucasus Range. They are rather loosely woven, such as certain Caucasian Kazaks, which can be incredibly moving, but have only 50 or 60 knots per square inch.

"And then there are 20th-century Persian rugs, where the knot count is 500 knots per square inch, but at the same time, their designs are so repetitive because the weaver became a machine, a knot-making machine. The artistic aspect was removed, and the weaver was just following a pattern. I feel like if the weaver is acting as a machine…why don't you just have a machine make it right? But it's the heart and soul that express and evoke the beauty of the rug, and that's what a weaver provides. It is not a number; it's the weaver’s personal connection to the universe."

Winitz and Miller also delve deeply into an extremely rare and valuable turn-of-the-19th-century Bakshaish Dragon and Phoenix carpet that hangs on the wall behind Winitz’s desk in his office. He acquired it as a teenager, and he studies it daily. It is not for sale.

Winitz explained to Miller the ethos of the piece: “…the whole rug is about that relationship between the dragon and Phoenix, between yin and yang, yang being the masculine, yin being the feminine. And again, these are not man and woman. They are cosmic principles of the Eastern world, and it is powerful, and at the same time, it's incredibly embracing.”

The two-episode podcast is available at https://www.themagazineantiques.com/podcast/.

More information about Claremont Rug Company is available at www.claremontrug.com or by calling 800-441-1332.